How Many Zones To YVR On The Canada Line?
While the backbone of Vancouver’s SkyTrain line runs from the suburbs to the city and is used regularly by local commuters, the Canada Line will be a tourist line. Quickly taking those unfamiliar with our city from the airport to downtown in 30 minutes. While those taking the Expo Line are familiar with Translink’s zonal structure of fare pricing, visitors will be unaware how the system works.
It’s with that virgin user experience the pay terminals needed to be designed. Yet instead of a “you’re here” and “where would you like to go” and “here’s how much it is,” the user is left to hunt and peck across a screen that expects you to know the system and how much it will cost you to get from A to B.
Have a look at the terminal again, the opening screen immediately asks you for how many zones you would like to purchase a fare. There is no explanation of zones, just a yellow, red and blue button. Across the top of the box is a listing of the stations on the line, with no mention of the color coded zone boundaries.
It’s only down in the lower right hand portion of the terminal does the colour coding show up with a listing of stations in what could only be termed 8 point font. It’s tiny, it’s out of the way and many people aren’t figuring out how to work the system.
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So rampant is the confusion over the new system that a crude sign showed up next to terminals at YVR this weekend. That sign blasts a failing grade to translink, the fare box designers and everyone who offered a check and balance along the way. The system is a miserable mistake and needs to be immediately altered before more pylons and hand drawn scribbles find their way into stations across the line.
The best part of the failing grade the new Canada Line must surely receive? While fare evasion on Vancouver’s transit system is surely epidemic, they failed to install the most basic of measures – turnstiles.
It’s a tourist line, most major cities have turnstiles to guarantee fares are paid. It wouldn’t be a large inconvenience to install the same here – actually, it would be a welcome measure to insure this transit line doesn’t get paid for by another tax on the honest while the criminal roam free.
The Blog According to Buzz. Spread the word, ya heard?
No kidding. FAIL.
“to insure this transit line doesn’t get paid for by another tax on the honest while the criminal roam free.”
I assume this means you are classing non-fare payers as “criminal”. How bizarre and reactionary is that! Transit should be free (thus saving, amongst much else, the cost of fare machines AND turnstiles) and all this nonsense can be done away with.
Perhaps in utopia, yes. But here’s the thing: it’s NOT free and if we all went around abiding only the laws we liked, well… That would be an interesting anarchy, wouldn’t it?
Just got a summer full of transit riding in Paris, Lyon, London and Manchester. All closed systems. Brutally closed. With our 2.5YO daughter, stroller and two massive rolling duffel bags we often had trouble moving thru the turnstyles. In Paris they are like a sliding door that moves out of the way for about 1 second — enough time for a normal healthy commuter to get thru then they guittoine shut. Often I made it thru but my 2 huge bags were on the unpaid side. I’d then wrestle with the doors and eventually get them open. Once our daughter got caught in the closing door luckily her stroller’s frame protected her from harm.
Even with all these crazy experiences I would vote for a closed system everytime. Keep it user paid. As it is the rides must be heavily subsidized (dowtown for 2.25, right!) but at least its some cost recovery.
One thing I haven’t seen is a discussion of the ergonomics of the new machines. I’m not SUPER tall, but at six feet or so the touch screens are already a little awkward for me to hit. The PIN pads, however, are even worse requiring me to kind of half-squat to reach them, and the ticket depository…
Who designed this machine? Midgets? I have to basically kneel down to get my ticket. There’s no indication of where the ticket will be, and people are just getting confused. I’ve helped several people so far find their ticket, and I’ve seen several more tickets left in the drop slot, presumably because people have just given up.
Every time I ride the Canada Line, I envy parents with toddlers. I imagine myself saying to a daughter ‘Ok sweetie, take the ticket’, not just to make her feel like she’s taking part in the affair, but also to save my knees from undue trauma.
Sorry company-that-Translink-contracted-out-to, these ticket machines are just poorly designed top to bottom, and whoever tested them must have spent a lot of time saying ‘Well… I guess it’s good enough’ for them to have ended up so poorly-concieved.
hear you on the hassle of the closed European system. Stairs everywhere – not luggage/ stroller friendly at all. Probably a function of the era they were built. You would think in 2009 they could build an accessible AND closed system.
I havent even mentioned the depth of the platforms. They are VERY shallow. I don’t want to even guess at the over/under for the first fatality from tripping into the train well.
The point about the user experience is important and revealing (considering how important tourism is to Vancouver).
I recall when I first moved to Vancouver I was surprised at how unfriendly the system is for tourists or any new arrival. Two Bus lines with two stops on the street (Burrard and Robson comes to mind), the Zone system is just plain done (Vancouver is not London). Having the bus stops after the intersection rather than before calls for airline vomit bags because of the “jerky stop and go ride”.
Thanks Buzz for bringing this up as a native Vancouver lad you have some credibility When I bring issues up the first question you get is are you from Toronto?
People probably refer to Toronto because, from what I remember, their transit system is so much better. I agree with all the points made. It took me a while to decifer the zones and when do I pay the discounted price. I have yet to take a ride on the Canada Line, but I understand that instead of using EXIT, an international word, they’ve used WAY OUT. Why? I believe that if Translink used turnstiles (as in Toronto) where all users paid rather than using the “trust” method, the system could easily pay for itself, and just maybe the fares would be reasonable.
“Way Out” baffles me too. I keep thinking the “w” is describing the platform name (which are also difficult to find when staring out the window trying to remember what station you’re at.
It’s just odd all the way ’round. That said, I still do love taking Zacharie on a ride to the airport to do some plane watching and this is a quick and easy way to get it done.
[...] Bishop recently posted a well-thought out critique of Translink’s ticket dispensing machines. These machines have been around for years and this [...]
I have used ‘for fun’ the new Canada line with my husband and 2 kids (a tween and a toddler in stroller) last Sunday. I use the skytrain regularly, my husband rarely to none. We started our ride from Renfrew station and made the switch to Commercial/Broadway. From there, we took the train to Waterfront.
At Waterfront, we kinda got lost. Where do you go for the new line? We followed the flow. Lucky for us, most of the riders were doing the same…taking the new line ‘for fun’. There was some Translink staff at the upper level helping a lot of funners trying to find their way to the new line. Once we figured out our way, out we go to Richmond Centre, last terminal.
With a stroller, the train is quite wide but we had to share the “bike only” section with 2 cyclists enthusiasts who quickly pointed out that they had priority?!? Let’s make space for luggages, bikes but not the strollers? Understanding that Vancouver is heading toward being green, let’s not forget growing families! Not to mention that a man in a scooter requiring the handicap area had to shout and honk for people to move.
Before turnstiles and getting things right outside, let’s work on the inside!
I got off at Yaletown with my suitcase, and as I headed past the elevator a guy with a cane stopped the door from closing and said I might want to take the elevator too, no escalator but only stairs around the corner. Stairs and what seemed to be just one elevator, for a stop that’ll unload trains full of tourists with suitcases?
I’d be interested in hearing the thinking that went into that one.
… was also puzzled by two other things…
I could see nowhere for people to put luggage, though we were boarding at the airport. That’s gonna get messy when ridership goes up. Again… what thinking went into that? Genuinely puzzled.
The other one, staff at the airport said to go to different floors depending if we were looking for the Canada Line or the SkyTrain… and two different staffers said that they were different things. Maybe I’m missing something?
Turnstiles (and smartcards) ARE coming by 2011 or 2012 (I think 2012), because Translink is taking its time to find the right/appropriate technology, and not to mention the MONEY. Translink’s inconsistent funding is stretched as it is.
With so much of the world already using turnstiles, I’m sure appropriate technology already exists. Didn’t this line come “on time” and “under budget”???
They could have spent the extra time and budget funds on having a useful system on day 1 instead of ad libbing as they go.
Great post Buzz. I STILL don’t understand what is the difference between a normal fare and a concession fair?
I agree there needs to be a “Where are you going?” fare calculator built right into the machine.
I haven’t been on the line yet, but take the train regularly into downtown. I can’t stand the fact that there are no turnstiles, as for the comment that they’re coming in 2012, I wont believe it until they’re finally implemented.
I take the train during both rush hours, 5 days a week, and in the past 5 months I’ve been checked 2 times. Imagine all the fee jumpers.
Also, while I’ve heard that the new trains out to the airport have more room for luggage, but they need to do something about those taking the regular train to waterfront to connect. I’ve seen people try to get on at 8am during rush hour with 3 suitcases to a pair. There is absolutely no room for that and they end up getting harassed by those already on the train.
This system is in no way close to being perfect, the flaws are incredible.
Very little time on my hands at the moment, but I did want to disagree that the Canada Line is ‘a tourist line”. I’m not sure what your definition for this would be, but that thing has been packed out with locals during rush hours when I’ve ridden it.
Yes, it goes out to the airport, but that implies that a ton of locals will use it to leave and return to the city as well.
While I’m pretty ambivalent on the whole turnstiles thing, I’m not sure justifying it with a ‘tourist line’ argument is particularly sound.
The photo of the terminal I posted in the article is of one at the airport. This will be many tourist’s point of entry to the city. That’s what I mean by tourist line. There will be a far greater “rookie” quotient on this transit line than any other, and I would have hoped the UX for the machines would have taken that into account, somewhat.
As it stands I tried to board a bus at Grouse last week armed with a $5 bill and no coins. The buses don’t take bills. “You should know that,” was the reponse I received from the surly driver.
I haven’t ridden a bus in almost a decade. I take the SkyTrain or SeaBus and they both have paper currency facilities. Last time I took a bus there was just a big change box and I was fine with overpaying a couple bucks because I didn’t have change.
My point is the system is not very friendly to those who don’t use it frequently.
Oh, I remembered how confused I was the first time I tried to buy a ticket. I kept looking at the screen and trying to figure out what it wanted from me. I felt so stupid because there were all these people behind me and I have no clue.
Then, after awhile of pressing the touch screen (it is quite tricky) to press it so that it will detect your finger (I hate touchscreens), I figured out how to add fare. They need instructions on these ’cause it took me a few times to figure it out.
And finally, why don’t the ticket machines have the validation thing there? I thought that there was one and was trying to find it, until I found these odd peculiar things so far away that I figured those were the validation machines. Very stupid.
Okay, I am now considered a “tourist” since I no longer live in Metro Vancouver (how I hate this name), it’s GVRD to me or GVA and with my knowledge of the zones, I still had problems with it. VERY SAD, Translink! I hate them.
>As it stands I tried to board a bus at Grouse last week armed with a $5 bill and no coins. The buses don’t take bills. “You should know that,” was the reponse I received from the surly driver.
I haven’t ridden a bus in almost a decade. I take the SkyTrain or SeaBus and they both have paper currency facilities. Last time I took a bus there was just a big change box and I was fine with overpaying a couple bucks because I didn’t have change.
Buzz, on the one hand, I hear yah, I remember the mid 80’s when the fare-boxes threatened “Please don’t feed me dollar bills (Remember those?)…. Those signs alway’s p***ed me off as the fare by that time was $1.00 or greater. But these days, I wouldn’t expect to be able to get on a bus with “folding money”.
OTOH, an obvious tourist boarded the 135 2 weeks ago offering a $5.00 bill; The driver was OK with that and waved if off, and all were helpfull in determining that, depsite his repeating the words “Renfrew Station, he really wanted to get to Renfrew & Franklin near the PNE entrance…. IIRC someone eventually changed his 5 into coins so he could pay
(and now, reading the original post, try to imagine a German or Dutch person figuring it out… I ended up ‘cheating’ in Munich for assuming that it worked the same way it did in Frankfurt)